Reddit pitbull attack golden retriever “I’ve never seen a-“ I have literally seen a yorkie try to rip out another yorkies throat. 122 votes, 48 comments. I see it as we don't have lions as housecats so we cant call a pitbull a house dog. To the people who think other dog breeds don’t attack, your very wrong. We all know that the majority were never reported, either. The distance covered. ” They make children have to celebrate being able to go back to school. I'm still shaking in anger. Looking trough wikipedias dog bite fatality list is usually also an eye-opener, or the ”total attacks and deaths” stickies for each month on r/banpitbulls. Users should assume that suggesting hurting or killing a dog in any capacity will be reported by pit supporters, and your account may be sanctioned by Reddit. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their experiences and receive support… Posted by u/ZealousidealNinja279 - 208 votes and 29 comments Pit bulls are bred to be violent and turn on a dime. This is a group for victims of pit bull attacks and others to vent about pits and their shit owners. Kidding, he got bitten on the hand by the GR puppy, didn't go to the doctor when it got infected and lost the arm to sepsis. 269 votes, 17 comments. 💔 ️🩹 Pam only began walking again recently. Users should assume that any comment made in this subreddit will be reported by pit bull supporters, so please familiarize yourself with the rules of our sub to prevent having your account sanctioned by Reddit. When a pit bull attacks a kid, it usually doesn’t go so well. Thus it's adrenaline and as I like to call "rage" didn't fully kick in. The problem is not the breed, it's the type of owner the breed attracts. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their… This is a group for victims of pit bull attacks and others to vent about pits and their shit owners. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their experiences and receive support… Poor golden retriever, I fucking hate pitbulls so damn much. It probably gave all the possible signals a dog could to convey it wanted to avoid a fight. When I was a kid, our golden retriever once freaked out and attacked my friend. Aggressive behavior in dogs is often linked to poor socialization, training, and management by their owners. The owner eventually came and grabbed the retriever. Genetics and training are very, very important. I think is all dogs have the same ability to attack be it pitbull golden retriever or Chihuahua. Clips from the same “dog trainer”. poor thing was so gentle instead of biting the pitbull back it was screaming and biting the air. The belief that training as a puppy will remove that basic genetic predisposition has been refuted by the enormous number of fatal attacks by pit bulls compared to other breeds. " 104K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. We have met others, just like the ones we had and that's why we don't like the breed for HOUSE DOGS, they were not bred to be house dogs. 105K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. I’m a dog person and I don’t take pleasure hating on dogs whatsoever but pit bull are just too likely to cause harm, period. i was at a public dog beach with my golden retriever puppy, who is basically exactly what you'd expect: sweet, docile, literally zero aggression, loves everyone and everything. " 338 votes, 39 comments. American here who loves South Africa. When a pit bull attacks someone every newspaper in the country runs that story for a week. How many news stories have we seen since January 1st , where the owner of the Pitbull has said that they raised the shitbeast from a puppy and never show aggression until the fatal attack on the child or the owner. Or is it just a one way street and they are truly untouchable. I ended up with 20+ puncture wounds and nearly degloved my ring finger. 104K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. Not a Golden Retriever, but I know of a case where a Labrador Retriever mauled a child (who survived). 499 votes, 109 comments. When a golden retriever, poodle, hell even a doberman, attacks someone, it gets a story in the local newspaper and no one ever hears about it again. This is a group for victims of pit bull attacks and others to vent about pits… This is a group for victims of pit bull attacks and others to vent about pits and their shit owners. I chose my dog for companionship not a status symbol or security blanket. It was insane. Just scary. The attack lasted around 60 seconds and the only way they were able to free the bite was with a broom being wedged into the dogs jaw. I don't know the extent. NO DEBATES. The fact that his neighbor was forced to kill his dog is solely his own fault. Just because some attack doesn’t mean they all do…. It's almost every story and their is at least 3 or 4 , often fatal and unprovoked Pitbull attacks reported every day. It is their nature. Incidents like this keep happening and people keep making excuses and turning a blind eye. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their experiences and receive support… Award for one of the most stupid and ridiculous comparison videos on Earth. I did a quick Google Image search for dog bite wounds of different breeds. We see time and time again the clear evidence when it comes to these breeds yet lobbyist When this video went viral, it prompted me to buy a pocket knife and carry it anytime I’m outside my home with my dog. During the walk they and their golden retriever [dog] were viciously attacked by two pit bulls. The retriever bit him once, and then just jogged back to his house, smiling and tail wagging. 322K subscribers in the Connecticut community. Second time, he needed surgery. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their experiences… This is a reminder that this is a victims' subreddit with the primary goal to discuss attacks by and the inherent dangers of pit bulls. I don't hate the dogs or anything but I don't think that humans are capable of controlling them either. There’s a reason why we can barely find golden retriever attack vids versus pit bull attacks. Pit bulls were bred to bite/shake/hold to do maximum damage during a dog fight. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their… Another sub has written a pit bull-specific self defense guide. Been on this sub for a while now and seen many videos but this is the first time for me that I’ve seen an attack in real life. On Nov. Should be muzzled when outside and all breeding of new ones banned. Yes all dogs can attack, but look at which dog does the most damage in its That's wild. 85K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. 155 votes, 12 comments. Came across a story on Facebook where the family golden retriever saved their son from being attack by a pit. He was 9 and easily fought off the attack. If you’re this scared of a fucking golden retriever, you just need to never walk outside your house. In some ways it makes sense for the dog to give appeasement behaviors to get the attacker to stop, but, that is not always successful, in which case the dog may try to be defensive. Then the following video, he’s yelling at a lady walking her 2 little dogs while walking 2 unleashed pit bulls. Yes I think pit bull owners that just stand and let their dogs destroy others should be charged with animal cruelty. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their experiences and receive support… 274 votes, 58 comments. Note how the drastic increase in severity for wounds caused by pitbull attacks as opposed to other breeds. The pit bull, says the sister, consistently 'knocked down' the kids every time they 'ran by' it. We love taking walks and meeting friends at the dog park. They both have been traumatized by a Pitbull attacking them several times, but Eevee is especially terrified of big dogs. Unless you know for sure, I would question how much golden there is in that dog. They are not labs, they don't have the personality of labs or goldens. But I'm considering getting a Golden Retriever puppy once I have my own place because Eevee looks like a Golden Retriever and I believe he's mixed with one and I think it'd be good for him to be around one. America is bad with Pit Bulls but our crime rate even in inner cities is much lower than in say metro Johannesburg. The general public uses “Pit Bull” as an umbrella term for all Bull Breeds. Luckily we had our husky mix with us, who while being way smaller, jumped in between us and bit that fucker on the nose and it ran off. Shitty people make shitty pets. I have no idea what they're babbling about ; maybe they're claiming mastiffs, bull dogs, boxers, etc. 91K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. Keep the dog park ; ban American pit bull terriers and the other four breeds that are under the "pit bull umbrella term" (BTW,apparently the nutters are now claiming there's over twenty breeds misidentified as pit bulls now. 254 votes, 99 comments. If your dog attacks my golden boy (retriever) and you can’t stop it, I will end the threat. I haven't heard of a Golden mauling (not that it's impossible). The owner of the Golden Retriever had me feeling slightly confused because he did very little and was watching his dog being attacked - if that had been my dog then the Pitbull would not have done what it This is a reminder that this is a victims' subreddit with the primary goal to discuss attacks by and the inherent dangers of pit bulls. I live in a group of rentals, and a lady who moved into a rental a few doors down a few months ago has a Pit Bull. The bite force of an american pitbull is 240-330 psi, which is greater than the golden retriever (190 psi). Plus you can literally find a video of any animal being friendly to a human. JOB. My English Golden Retriever fended off a few pit bull attacks from pit bulls on my street. We do have animal control and PD in route as well. [Man] received multiple bites from the dogs in an attempt to rescue [dog] that resulted in stitches, [woman] who is three weeks postpartum was bit as well and [dog] was rushed into emergency surgery as she was in critical condition from the attack. . One of the pit bulls reportedly entered her home during the attack and put her baby at risk of harm. Its counterpart, the pit bull, is firm, protective and dogged. Please familiarize yourself with the rules of our sub. I unfortunately can all but guarantee this will not be the last time this dog does this. I’m not taking chances with dog attacks. at lease it wasnt as horrible as that last attack i seen on a golden retriever where the pitbull was ripping its arm off. I was kicking and pushing. No harassing or threatening other members or mods of this sub! It’s an immediate ban. To continue this discussion in the future, please remember the rules of the subreddit. Posted by u/RPA031 - 22 votes and 2 comments This is a reminder that this is a victims' subreddit with the primary goal to discuss attacks by and inherent dangers of pit bulls. My golden retriever pup was attacked by 2 pit bulls when she was about that age, maybe a little older. That the pit was fun and goofy 99% of the time when it didnt maul a neighbour to death in her backyard even when being shot by two police officers- does not mean pit bulls suddenly aren't anything else than dangerous. Unlike all other breeds, pit bull terriers were relatively more likely to attack an unknown individual (+31%), and without provocation (+48%). 15K subscribers in the pitbullhate community. 4. It does sound like the pit bull might be in the backyard, in a fenced-in backyard. I feel genuine anger reading about all of these attacks on Goldens. S. Pits can take down even larger dogs it's scary. And the golden retriever didn't even bring it back. First time, the dog needed stitches. It's far better than being shot by cops or another person who's pet is being attacked. Pit bulls cause such intense suffering. In Pawtucket, RI, a 10 year ban was unfortunately overturned by the pitbull lobbiest group after being in place since 2003 and reducing pitbull attacks to almost nothing. Several bystanders struggle to stop the attack. Our reporting party was also injured. , are also being I actually compiled a full list of every Golden Retriever attack that resulted in a fatality for the last few years last month: Fatal Golden Retriever Attacks, 2022: n/a Fatal Golden Retriever Attacks, 2021: n/a Fatal Golden Retriever Attacks, 2020: n/a Fatal Golden Retriever Attacks, 2019: n/a Fatal Golden Retriever Attacks, 2018: n/a And people say golden retrievers never attack…. The reason the pitbull didn't keep going after being hit like they do in most cases, was due to the pitbull never actually getting to bite or draw blood from its would be victim. 352 votes, 30 comments. Pitbull attack in upstate New York on June 2nd, 2023 had owned a golden retriever, an English setter, or another Labrador, you wouldn't have to be taking your dog I know anecdotal evidence is barely evidence but every single golden retriever I have ever met was well behaved, friendly, cuddly and playful. It was off leash and trespassing. 98K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. I was doing leash training in my driveway. The fact the golden was just walking and was nowhere near it. From what I have read and because of South Africa's horrible crime rate the demand for guard and trained attack dogs pit bulls, Rottweilers Cane Corso etc is huge. Pit bulls are such bottom-of-the-barrel garbage dogs with no actual purpose other than dog fighting. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their experiences and receive support… Sorry guys, but this isn't a Pitbull, which are banned where the attack occurred. Just search ”pit bull” and filter on new on reddit and compare with the same search for golden retriever. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their experiences and receive support… Pit bulls are overwhelmingly the most dangerous dog breed. They put people in the hospital for months. true. I’m sure you all know what incident I am on about with regard to the title of this thread. I hate to stereotype, but I used to work with Rover for a bit, I completely canceled out big breeds for this reason. It got ahold of my hand. I can’t understand why it’s legal to breed these repulsive things anywhere. I was very concerned that this dog… Years ago a pitbull got out of someones fence and came to attack my elderly golden who was literally in a doggy wheelchair. In effect since 2005, breed-specific legislation (BSL) in Toronto which bans dogs labeled as "pitbulls" including American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terries, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and many mixed breed dogs that can resemble the breeds commonly included in the modern "pitbull-type" category has fully failed to prevent or Curious, what would you consider a pitbull? Like, what percentage of a pitbull type breed would there need to be to consider it dangerous? Surely a golden retriever mix that has 10% wouldn't matter right? Or would that be included in the "put down all pitbulls" thing? Genuinely wondering where the line is drawn. My family friends dog was mauled by a golden retriever. 107K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. An interesting thing you’ll find if you break down those “Pit Bull Attacks” you hear all over the media is that the dogs tend to be from unknown backgrounds: backyard breeders/rescues/shelters. I still took her to training school, hired a private trainer and heavily socialized her. Some have likened their partners to rottweilers instead of pit bulls Golden retriever puppy attacks Hi everybody - for about 2 months now, my 8mo male golden has been attacking me on walks. 791K subscribers in the ActualPublicFreakouts community. My GSD is my heart dog, and I promise you I’d get that worthless shitbull off my shep much quicker than they did with way fewer fucks given about being gentle with it. I was at my local dog park today with my 1. And, here’s a photo of one of the pit bulls that did that to him. Truth is, I don't mind all large breed dogs, I just don't mess with Pitbulls, which seem to be the national dog of the NY boroughs. The Pitbull in the attack on the Golden in Berkeley should have been euthanized. I recommend this experiment, just search ”pit bull” with the filter on new. Problem is if a golden retriever bites you, they let go and you go to the doctor and get stitches, when a Pitbull bites you they wont stop and you go the the plastic surgeon to get your butt sewn on to where your face was. I wish pit haters understood that. My niece is still trying to fight pit bull owners in her old apartment building for vet bills from not one, but 2 attacks on her dog. A judge ordered euthanasia of vicious pit bull on Mississippi Coast. No one cares the pit bull "never did that before" or "was super sweet" when this seems to be the case in most pit bull maulings. Nov 10, 2021 · Recently I received an email from an inexperienced dog owner, asking for advice about dogs attacking other dogs. Most other dogs will stop a fight when dominance is achieved, but pit bulls will ignore self-preservation to continue the attack. Don’t care if I go to jail and don’t care if you’re upset. She started screaming at me to "run!" 197 votes, 453 comments. I searched for GSD, Golden Retriever, and Doberman bites before searching Pitbull bites. However, within the last 12 months, I have had 2 pitbulls lunge at me and others, one pitbull bark and growl at me and others, and probably more that I haven This is a reminder that this is a victims' subreddit with the primary goal to discuss attacks by and the inherent dangers of pit bulls. The keywords here are: "previous attack" The pit bull attacked another dog in 2012. Finally, there's a huge issue with breed misidentification. And it's not like this is a one-off incident. Pit attacks are so prevalent, they are happening all day everyday. My point here is that, yes, any breed of dog can become violent. People have a habit of saying golden retriever mix to help the adoption chances even though they have no idea. Pit bull type dogs don’t just “bite. A place to see people freaking out, going wild, and losing their… The media also overreports on pit bull attacks. She sent me a horrific video of a golden retriever being attacked by a pit bull 207 votes, 29 comments. 26, Kirsten DeVries was walking her golden retriever when two of Johnson’s dogs ran off her property and began attacking DeVries and her dog, and causing serious injury to both. It was absolutely ridiculous how many people were standing around and doing absolutely nothing. Then his own dog was found dead. A pitbull attacked my 9 month old golden retriever’s neck twice! It latched on the first time and I was kicking it with all… I found this sub after seeing a pitbull attack a golden retriever on the publicfreakouts subreddit. How Do I Defend Myself During a Pit Bull Attack This pitbull I have seen walking around the neighborhood with it’s owner and I knew the piece of shit was going to attack someone or some dog some day. Didn’t suffer any injuries but we put the dog down. I have a golden and I'm so sorry you had to experience that. I think he’s a narcissist for admitting he uses small dogs just walking by as “an opportunity” for his “reactive” pit bull client “to make a choice”. 2018, Tennessee: Pit bull triggered by man's seizure breaks out of its cage and mauls four people Scott Avenue 10-4, send a truck Respond 334 for an animal attack for a pit bull that's attacked a 9-month old child, possibly killed it. Thank you so much :) you totally should, I got her from a farm in Kansas that accidentally had puppies and I almost got all of them they were so darn cute! fingers crossed she lives a long life, I love my dog so much! 98K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. The determination and speed in which attacked. A subreddit dedicated to all manner of genuine public disturbance, commotion, uproar, and fracas… Honey I've yet to hear of a golden retriever pack attack or Saint Bernard attack on their owners or strangers. Yes, golden retrievers and Samoyeds can and do attack people. The traditional golden retriever man is kind, accommodating, supportive, loyal and eager. "We welcome you with cordial hospitality, and if you remain, we will try… This is a reminder that this is a victims' subreddit with the primary goal to discuss attacks by and the inherent dangers of pit bulls. 2016, UK: Man suffering epileptic seizure mauled to death by his pit bull that he had since it was born. Which did nothing to make its owners' make sure that their dog was always in an enclosed area/backyard and never off leash. Labradors (not Goldens) are implicated in a high number of bites, but that's only because they are the most populous breed in the U. A few people with common sense have said you shouldn't be able to have that many pits or breed them which of course leads to the typical pit mommy/daddy comments of "how dare you tell people how many dogs they can have!" Hey there WAS a man who lost his arm due to a golden retriever. To your first point, the worst part about people like that is when you go to their house and their big ass dog is jumping all over you, slobbering all over you, and barking at you, and the owner is just like "oh don't worry bout it he's just being friendly. Last week I was chilling at home with my new puppy (a miniature dachshund) when I heard absolute mayhem outside-people screaming and dogs barking… This is a group for victims of pit bull attacks and others to vent about pits and their shit owners. An aggressive golden is rare and notice how the injury was a scratch/bruise, meanwhile most pit attacks to the face end far worse. According to the news report, it was a kind of dog we locals call a 'staffy', literally one of Australia's most registered dog (so look at that as to whether they are dangerous or not) Attacks from this breed are quite rare, and staffys are quite friendly dogs normally. She had to gut the pit bull from groin to chest before it stopped its attack. A pit bull is easier to acquire - if you go into any shelter and say the magic words "I want a pit bull" you'll become their BFF and will have your choice of 100 pit bulls, able to specify size, color, age, gender, etc. This one time a pit bull came out into the middle of the street and was acting intimidating and my dog just took off in a sprint and literally bowled over this pit bull by ramming it with his head, then when this pit bull was still rolling my dog doubled honestly this happened a couple months back but it's singlehandedly made me distrust pitbulls. Golden’s are not guardian dogs, they are retrievers, they don’t pick fights and when shit hits the fan they are dipping the fuck out, you’ll never rely on a golden to attack anything they simply aren’t built for it. Posted by u/bughousenut - 123 votes and 48 comments 15K subscribers in the pitbullhate community. The "golden retriever" partner trend on TikTok has soared to new heights—and new variations—in the past several months. The Netherlands repealed our ban on pitbulls in 2008. Labs, Shepherds and Huskies are just as likely to bite. Thank goodness my dog was fine. They cause the majority of dangerous attacks resulting in deaths and bad injuries. Of the more than 8 different breeds identified, one-third were caused by pit bull terriers and resulted in the highest rate of consultation (94%) and had 5 times the relative rate of surgical intervention. This is a reminder that this is a victims' subreddit with the primary goal to discuss attacks by and the inherent dangers of pit bulls. The retriever would NOT give up. 2018, Florida: Pit bull mix spooked by owner's seizures mauls her. The golden retriever had torn tendons and broken bones but they were able to keep the leg and dog will make a full recovery. 2017, Illinois: Man with history of seizures killed by family pit bull. We want it back. A subreddit dedicated to San José, California, the heart of the Silicon Valley. 424 subscribers in the BanPitBullsNL community. They were specifically bred for fighting and aggression. We welcome victims (and their sympathizers) who wish to share their… So, I got a Golden Retriever! Funny, how many dog owners do not prioritize that when getting a dog. He will suddenly start jumping up and biting my arms - hard, not play biting/mouthing. So whenever one of the other mentioned breeds were to be involved in an attack, it would be mislabeled as a “Pit Bull Attack” regardless if the dog isn’t an American Pit Bull Terrier, causing an inaccurate amount of attacks resulting with skewed statistics and backlash to the only breed with the literal words “Pit Bull” in its name. “All dogs bite,” is not an applicable phrase to the conversation. No, it's not really a-typical behavior for Chessys. 5 year old Golden Retriever and my disabled 13 year… Feb 1, 2011 · It's more about the individual than the breed. The capacity for harm is for sure greater, but american pitbulls are not even in the top 20 of breeds with the most bite force. If people can get charged for animal cruelty for killing a pit bull while it’s attacking your pet, surely the pit owners should be charged. out of nowhere this pitbull who was sitting like a hundred feet away with its owner just turns around, stares hard at my dog 100K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. That, and we need to stress that pit bulls were not created to fight other dogs, but to KILL them, being genetically modified through selective breeding to attack without warning and to keep attacking without responding to appeasement gestures, propensities all too easily triggered by pet animals and even human beings, the old and the very young in particular. Or check it out in the app stores Pitbull Type Attacks Golden Retriever In Irvine UK Contrary to popular belief, only the minority of Pit Bulls used for dog fighting were “man-biters”. Posted by u/[Deleted Account] - 220 votes and 26 comments Not all pits should be killed obviously but they should stop being bred and I will die on that hill. a trained pit bull vs an obviously irritated and untrained golden retriever? Surprising that one of them was a lot calmer than the other. YOU HAD ONE JOB, FLUFFY BOB, ONE. 😒 This is a group for victims of pit bull attacks and others to vent about pits and their shit owners. While it is true that pit bulls have been involved in some high-profile attacks, studies have shown that breed is not a reliable predictor of aggression in dogs. I know dog parks aren’t typically recommended but I have a 1yr old Golden Retriever who needs tons of activity and exercise. She then slit the pit bull's throat, but that didn't stop it. In December, 2023: A 79 year old woman from Clear Lake, Texas, named Pam Lopez; survived an attack by 2 pit bulls because her courageous Labrador, named Rowdy - saved her life. This means “Pit Bull” is often used to mislabel other Bull Breeds such as the American Staffordshire Terrier(AmStaff), American Bully(Bully), and Staffordshire Bull Terrier(Staffy) simply because they are similar to American Pit Bull Terriers(Pit Bull). Neighbor had 2 pits and was finishing a walk with one of them and as she went to go in the house, both of them got out. NO… If you read the dogsbite post, it says the original YouTube video was posted by the sister of the pit bull owner - who was a grown woman who dumped her adult male pit bull and 3 children on her parents. I hope there were consequences for that disgusting pitbull and it's disgusting owner. If you search "Golden retriever attack" in google news it's mostly stories about pit bulls attacking golden retrievers Get the Reddit app Scan this QR code to download the app now. Rest in Peace Rowdy and thank you for being such a good boy for your owner. I have never had a bad experience with them. Of course we… 94K subscribers in the BanPitBulls community. Let alone one from a Pit. There are pits who would never attack, but there’s also pits that have been hand raised since puppies, well trained, and then randomly decide to kill one of their owners or a kid years later. Mallorca, Spain: 3 pit bulls were shot dead by police when a pack of 5 pit bulls viciously attacked a 38 y/o woman - Article Link Distrito Federal, Brazil: Cane Corso seriously injured after attack by 3 loose pit bull type dogs - Article Link 2014 CA - A woman tried everything to get a pit bull to stop attacking her corgi before she went to her car to get a knife and then stabbed and stabbed and stabbed the pit bull, but it wouldn't let go. And yes, we really hate pits and their worthless owners! Read the rules before posting; being ignorant is not an excuse. I have a Golden Retriever myself, and this video hit too close to home. Join our Discord server… 421 subscribers in the PublicRumpus community. I bet that golden retriever was a sweet dog, poor thing. And it's about how a dog reads and responds to the body language of another dog. A pit bull type dog attacks a Golden Retriever as it walks by. /r/SanJose will be going dark between 12-14th June in protest against Reddit's API changes which will kill 3rd party apps like Apollo, Reddit is Fun, and BaconReader. The father could have been a golden I guess, but it would be rare for someone to allow their golden female to mate with a pit bull. Pawtucket is a bit of a rough city. Try it with any other breed. And all those useless people just watching that poor innocent golden get brutalized. 144 votes, 37 comments. 8K votes, 855 comments. Definitely not the same as the overrepresentation we see in pitbull m This is a reminder that this is a victims' subreddit with the primary goal to discuss attacks by and the inherent dangers of pit bulls. Basically what comes up is ”loose pit bull on street” ”my dog was attacked by a pit bull” ”my pit bulls wont stop fighting” and the like.
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